Villa Park

30 minutes ago, beswetherick said:

It’s not *just* violence though - it’s the overtly racist element to the MTA fans’ violence which is the issue here. 
 

I imagine if there was a club who had a large number of fans that had recently been going around singing “death to Jews” and violently targeting Jewish people in the street then the Met Police would probably take the same action if that club were to play Spurs away, for example. 

29 minutes ago, SiJ said:

At a time of heightened sensitivity as well. 

2 minutes ago, Anthndav said:

The counter protest move shouldn't be ignored here either. An Israeli team in Aston is likely to attract alot of attention from Palestinian supporting Muslims in the area.

All of these things are true. The problem is WMP making decisions on this basis will just make things worse in the long run. Banning fans that are racist and violent towards Arabs is a good thing - but if you don't then ban fans who are racist and violent towards black people, it just creates more division.

And of course we all know there is a wider background to this at the moment and that there is a likelihood of reprisals - but if WMP ban it on that basis they're risking pitching Birmingham as the official 'Gaza' side of some Israel vs Gaza proxy war between football fans. It'll just be twisted - as you can see above - as 'WMP can't guarantee the safety of Jews in Birmingham'. 

For me they have to treat MTA the same as any other fan base with significant violent and racist elements. Until now that has been to let them travel and try to control it, banning individuals where possible. If the move is now to ban the fan bases altogether then I don't actually have much of a problem with that. But it's not fair - or sensible - that WMP are the ones who have to set that policy. 

1 minute ago, Ronnie Starling said:

From the river to the see and death to Jews is ok then which is what is played out most Saturdays on pro Palestine marches?

It’s not ok and I’m sure if fans were going to do the same at a fixture in England they would likely face a ban too.
 

In this situation, violent and extremist fans with a history of causing problems, who hold anti Muslim and Arab sentiments have been banned from attending a match in a city with a large Muslim population. It’s not that hard to understand surely?

3 minutes ago, edinburghowl said:

Agree 100%. Doing that in a city with a large Muslim community is a recipe for disaster. It is absolutely nailed on if their fans did attend that they would behave like that too.

 

But it's going to be a really, really bad look if MTA can't play in some UK cities but can in others. This shouldn't be a WMP choice. 

The media narrative as to what happened in Amsterdam that night was changed my MSM. 

The Israeli fans were on the rampage, it was all over Dutch twitter, my husband was in his Amsterdam office that night and got caught in the middle of it. 

It was absolutely vile, they're nothing but thugs and should be banned from everywhere. 

4 minutes ago, SnowyOwl13 said:

They have admitted it. That's why they're saying for Maccabai fans not to go there. 

Just ignore the other side and the well publicised issues with MTA fans in the past. 

Just now, edinburghowl said:

It’s not ok and I’m sure if fans were going to do the same at a fixture in England they would likely face a ban too.
 

In this situation, violent and extremist fans with a history of causing problems, who hold anti Muslim and Arab sentiments have been banned from attending a match in a city with a large Muslim population. It’s not that hard to understand surely?

And I go back to my original point that just because some of their support may make hateful or racist chants doesnt mean that all of their fans do this. The authorities in the West Midlands have more or less stated that they have lost control of some of their areas because they can't guarantee the safety of supporters. Maybe all football matches should be moved from Birmingham if they can't cope or maybe just deal with those that are potential trouble causers as they would on any match day.

MTA as a club know that they have a significant violent and racist element in their fanbase, and a responsible football club should take actions to root that out. If they can’t/won’t do that, authorities in other countries will make the decision for them to ensure public safety. 

2 minutes ago, JackOwl1867 said:

The media narrative as to what happened in Amsterdam that night was changed my MSM. 

 

The Israeli fans were on the rampage, it was all over Dutch twitter, my husband was in his Amsterdam office that night and got caught in the middle of it. 

 

It was absolutely vile, they're nothing but thugs and should be banned from everywhere. 

All of them?

A couple of other recent examples of away supporters being banned due to safety concerns:

“Already this season supporters of Dutch side Ajax and the German club Eintracht Frankfurt have been told not to travel to Marseille and Naples respectively after local officials intervened on grounds of safety.

Last season, in January of this year, police arrested 17 Dutch fans at the border after the French interior ministry banned Feyenoord fans from travelling to their Champions League tie in Lille.”

4 minutes ago, southportdc said:

 

But it's going to be a really, really bad look if MTA can't play in some UK cities but can in others. This shouldn't be a WMP choice. 

It should be their choice. They are responsible for public safety in their authority and community. 

Just now, beswetherick said:

MTA as a club know that they have a significant violent and racist element in their fanbase, and a responsible football club should take actions to root that out. If they can’t/won’t do that, authorities in other countries will make the decision for them to ensure public safety. 

Should we also on that basis ban Chelsea, West Ham, Millwall or Leeds fans from attending any football matches in this country?

Just now, Ronnie Starling said:

All of them?

Go look, you can find the videos from that night if you're interested.  Why on earth they were allowed into Amsterdam i have no idea, especially as the ground is out of town.  The Police failed, they should have been taken straight to the ground. 

All of them? Probably not but hundreds upon hundreds of them absolute ransacked central Dam. You'll convince no one in the Netherlands as to any thing else. We saw it first hand as it was happening online. 

2 minutes ago, edinburghowl said:

It should be their choice. They are responsible for public safety in their authority and community. 

But if the message is that MTA can't play in Birmingham but they can play in London or Newcastle or Glasgow, then it's not MTA that come out of it looking like the problem. 

2 minutes ago, Ronnie Starling said:

Should we also on that basis ban Chelsea, West Ham, Millwall or Leeds fans from attending any football matches in this country?

The difference is the community.

You don't get 20,000 anti-Milwall protesters turn up to an away game.

3 minutes ago, beswetherick said:

A couple of other recent examples of away supporters being banned due to safety concerns:

 

“Already this season supporters of Dutch side Ajax and the German club Eintracht Frankfurt have been told not to travel to Marseille and Naples respectively after local officials intervened on grounds of safety.

 

Last season, in January of this year, police arrested 17 Dutch fans at the border after the French interior ministry banned Feyenoord fans from travelling to their Champions League tie in Lille.”

Dutch fans are terrible, they're at it here every weekend,  yet it never gets reported outside the Netherlands,  the double standards with UEFA is awful.