onlyonedavidhirst

I have to disagree. That side has around 25 goals in it in the Championship. In league 1 its not going to suddenly produce 80 or so. Cadz might get you 10, nobody else gets more than 5. Its also built on Iorfa, Chalobah, Bernard who are likely to be injured in large patches (I know you caveated if all fit), Bannan who is a year older and a general lack of pace and height, which will be exposed in L1. Last time around we had Smith, Windass, Gregory & Pato all getting 10+ goals and we still didn't make automatics. It also had players like Byers, Neymarv etc who got goals and we dont have that in the side right now. L1 is often underestimated, it can be a real dogfight.

My mate, who is a Burnley fan missing maybe 2 games a year home and away (travelling from the Peak so its a fair trip even to home matches) says Redmond always looked good when he played - his concern for us is his injury situation.

I can help. PM me

My understanding was that we owe him.£60m as part of the sale of Hillsborough and another £60m as funding he has put into the club and classified it as director loans. The buyer could pay him 10p in the pound under UK administration law (ie £12m) and that would be acceptable, but our own football regulations state that if less than 25p in the pound is paid the club will receive additional points deductions the season after. There was talk at one point that a new buyer could try to put a case forward that to the football authorities that the money he has put into the club should not really be under the 25p rule as most owners would put it in and not classify it as debt, it would just be part of what an owner does. That way he'd be entitled to £21m not £30m. Failure to pay 10p in the pound is insolvency and a whole new ball game. I think Im right on all of this but happy to be corrected.

If we are looking for automatics next year then we need goals. I think hes got 1 for us in around 50 games, often being played high up the pitch. I like him but that return, which is almost on a par with the rest of his career, speaks volumes. I dont think he should be compared to Pato, but Pato was far more effective in both boxes. Release, or 4th choice central midfield player and never part of a front 3. Ive wondered if he could do a job at LWB, but I doubt it.

Love your sentiment but I think right now this current squad would be bottom half in League 1, possibly close to relegation as there are no goals throughout the team. I agree with Charles, if we do get owners with big pockets, he's got to be told we are a club that could be in the Prem in 3 years and we want him to be our goalkeeper throughout that period and beyond. A good pro as back up would be crucial I think. I'd like to kero Valery as a full back, but I also doubt he'd stay. Im not sure Fusire is good enough back up though, but he has more games to prove himself. He was struggling to get into a Carlisle side last year in his preferred position. M Lowe may stay, which would be fine, but I'm also not sure about Johnson. League 1 is tough - we only just made is out last time with season pro's. I reckon 1 or 2 full backs needed. Agree re Cooper, Bernard, Iorfa and Weaver, but I think we need a really strong centre half and for me Otegbayo just isnt good enough. Palmer is now nothing more than an average L1 player, maybe keep him, but I'd expect him to not be in the squad at times. I reckon 1 or 2 centre halfs needed. Bannan is a tricky one. Personally - and I know I'll get pelters, I think he should be kept but as a squad player. Pick his matches, tell him he is no longer captain and wont play every week. Agree with the rest of the midfielders. I reckon we need 3 more central midfielders. As for the forward players, the only ones I'd keep are Cadz (3rd or 4th choice striker) and Brown (looked good, but impossible to assess for a full L1 year). We probably need 2-3 central strikers and 2-3 wide strikers/wingers. By that Id say around 12 players, maybe 6 on loan and 6 new signings.

Given how long youve taken to reply, Id say it all academical

I think its fair to call him a club legend and I cant think of a more model professional. Works hard, seems to be liked by his teammates and has had a very good career. It would be good to see him break the record. Successive managers have kept him, I would suggest because hes dependable, good for the dressing room, can cover across the backline (occasionally in midfield), never grumbles when dropped or benched and far from the highest earner. Similarly though, successive managers have not included him in their first 11, including times in league 1. His RB position has been filled by Buxton, Hunt and Valery, all chosen regularly in favour of Palmer so this could happen again once signings start. That could be the clincher as to whether he takes the record. Lets hope he does it and at the same time we are pushing on and hes part of another promotion - maybe even the first time we win a league in most peoples lifetime.

We were having this type of chat on our way to West Brom recently. How many league grounds have you been on all 4 sides of and watched a match from that side. I may have missed a few but I think mine was 1. Hillsborough 2. Millmoor 3. Oakwell 4. Vicarage Road 5. Villa Park I have plenty at 3 sides such as Highbury, Elland Road, but I bet there are fans with lots more than me.

Im picturing the scene 5 years from now. Waltons are our owner and we are playing Barcelona in the Champions League group stage at Hillsborough. My Spanish mate has made the trip. "Let me show you our footballing statue next" "That should be good, we have one of Cruyff and the Messi statue is almost finished. Is yours of Waddle" "No, not Waddle" "Well maybe your highest ever scorer" "Not exactly, he went 10 years without scoring" "Perhaps someone who played lots of times for England" "Well actually, he was English but managed to play 8 times for Scotland" "Ok, let me guess then, what was his best position?" "Hard to say, he didn't really have one. He was mainly a defender" "I need more, how many times did he play for you in the premiership" "Never" "This is tricky, did he break your appearance record?" "No, he got close as he managed to play regularly when the only choice was him or a 17 year old who has never even played for our U21s" "I still dont know, what was his best season for you?" "His best season for the club was arguably when he ran a 10k every day in pre-season" "Why didnt you tell me that at the start, obviously its Liam Palmer"

Theres onlyonedavidhirst

I'm not sure that's the crucial point. Isn't more about what is seen as a fair price. If we are valued at £20m but someone has to pay £45m because of the large debt to DC, that person may decide against it even if they are a billionaire.

Just donated to Trust, will happily join in with something like this next time - I didnt expect Owlstalk to start a fundraiser and it be closed so quickly. Well done everyone and what a great idea Neil

If the adminstrators dont sell season tickets then its a good thing as the new owners can hopefully set fair prices but also sell them after the season has ended. If they go on sale soon it probably means the administrators are still short of cash flow. I'd like to think that the Norwich and United game together with the 4 game package releases enough revenue.

Agree with this. The new owners coming in need revenue streams. However for games up to that point, lets do what is needed to get fans into the ground.

Its interesting as well that many have said Wednesday fans dont have the guts for a fight, but it seems weve done something thats not really been done before and we've done it quickly. I dont think it can be understated how much of a role the Trust played in this and whilst the boycott seems like it carried by far the greatest weight, I think the upping of protests and the attacks from many sides (Clive Betts, major news broadcasts, Leicester etc) will have all added to his feeling of helplessness and for anyone associated with him it will have convinced them that he wasnt going to win.

The administrator said they would look to do deals after the United game. The issue with the Norwich game is that tickets have already been on sale at a set price. Pethaps for now they have more pressing matters than trying to change all that, then apply refunds to all those that have already bought etc.

I strongly suspect this is either a post by a non Wednesday fan (joined the site at the end of covid and has never posted before, plus isnt debating his point), a relation to someone going, or someone wanting more traffic on Owlstalk. Theres zero reason for this to be someones first ever post and furthermore to start a thread with it, rather than mention it on the other threads already covering this topic.

Thanks for a measured reply. Lots to answer and I'll try. I agree its multiple strategies that has helped, but the main owners who have left due to fan pressure have not faced large fan boycotts of attendance, its been much more media impact etc. Blackpool, for instance, are quoted as a fan group who boycotted yet when you look at their average attendances there wasnt much change in the owners final years and whats more the owner actually left due to a court case, not fan pressure. I agree the way he has treated fans and staff alike is deplorable, but I am not yet convinced a total boycott will work because firstly I still think the away protests are important to the cause. Secondly, I foresee that what might actually happen is a core of 500-1000 would go away regardless of all boycotts and they would be far less noisy and do less protesting, just like at home next season where we could end up with a core 4-5000 fans that keep going to home matches. Moreover, my point about the Trust is key. If the Trust say stop going to away matches I will, if they feel there us a reason to keep going for now then I will keep going. I believe their collective knowkedge is greater than mine or any single fan. I also agree that defunding should have started before now, I'd argue we could have started around 2019, the writing has been on the wall for a long time. But we are where we are and cant change that. The day he issued the survey asking season ticket holders whether we wanted to fund better players was the day I had zero faith in him and wanted him gone. I guess we are all at different points in the journey and have different views on what might work, but there is no perfect answer and I 100% believe we are far stronger supporting the Trust and followong their lead. As far away fans using that money thetly spent on away matches, the same could be said for season ticket holders who havent renewed in the past. There isnt a fan who didnt renew, put the saved money to a good cause, joined the Trust, went on all the marches, went to Leicester and stayed outside, went to the Thai Embassy and missed the cup games because thats impossible and we all do what we can and what feels right, in the main. I'd hope at the end of this nobody gloats, that we all accept that we had different views and that we can generally feel happy with our own choices and that they weren't done purely for our own personal interest. Whats more, whatever is the determining reason for his leaving, i hope isnt used as a I told you so badge of honour. Im currently in Croatia having had a fair few drinks so apologies if Ive gone off topic a little.

Hi mate, I go to away games still, but will miss Middlesboro and dont spend at home matches. I didnt go to Grimsby or Leeds and Ive posted several times why I still go to away games. First and foremost, our best way of getting rid of DC is coordinated action. Im a paid member of the Trust and they believe that the amount of traction we get from protesting at away games outweighs the income generated for the club. There are other reasons that I've posted, if you want them explaining feel free to ask. They range from the fact that no club has ever got rid of an owner by full boycott, but clubs have got rid of an owner by protests (which you cant do if nobody is there), there is no proof that full defunding will work (although I believe it probably will, but the point is there is no proof), to there is some tangible evidence that we are gaining support from other clubs by our away support. Theres more if you want it, feel free to tell me how you factually know that the extra he gains from away match income will mean he will leave the club quicker than if we didn't attend.

I agree mostly with this, but its not entirely true and its a shifting situation. I go with/know around 10 Wednesday fans whe are all in or around the highest category for matches and we are the type that would go midweek to Plymouth etc. 6 have 3 year season tickets that go beyond this year, but 2 of them have stopped going to most away matches, however there is often other members in the group that use their points so they still sit in the highest category. Of the 10, 2 are not renewing if DC stays and 1 more wouldnt if he didnt have a 3 year ticket. They will all then drop completely out of the top categories. Ive recently dropped from the top tier to the 2nd or 3rd as I am not buying cup tickets and couldnt get a ticket for Wrexham (10 points off at the time) and I dont sell mine on. I'll also not renew. I think theres a chance another 1 or 2 of them might stop going in due course (don't think everyone will) and we've all done 100+ grounds watching Wednesday. There is definitely a core that probably would never stop, no matter what, but even the most die-hards are constantly considering the situation.

Ive done all of those things as well in terms of the cup games and not spending a penny. We've not come to point scoring, you have. You have said that it doesnt matter what you do or believe, if you go to away games then you are not as good a fan and whats more, you are rubbing other fans noses in it, even though the Trust arent suggesting it and they are our single biggest representative and are coordinating more action than any other "body". Ive accepted that fans will see things differently and generally do what they think is right, even if I disagree with their point of view. Im quite happy to agree to disagree, we clearly wont see eye to eye but lets hope this doesn't last long

There is a poster by the Trust (unless its AI) stating they support away games at the moment because they believe there is more good comes from them than the small amount the club receives from them. Im happy for anyone from the Trust on here to clarify. I dont believe we are heading to that point yet because I hold that view. Many more clearly do because they are still going and as I said in another thread, Clive Betts is still attending and single handedly he's done more than most to advance our cause. I agree there may come a time when its needed, but as I said in my earlier post today, there is no guarantee that it will work. You are clearly incredibly passionate about Wednesday but nobody is rubbing your noses in it. Like I said, did you go to the Embassy. If not, its like me saying you were rubbing my nose in it by not going when I travelled from Sheffield and gave up a full day to try to further our cause. I wont throw that label out because we all, in the main, want whats best and do what we feel is right. This talk of big sacrifices in some cases relates to fans who no longer attend anyway and are arguing that we all shouldnt attend, when they werent even attending in the first place. Thats no sacrifice and Im not saying its you, but your single opinion is opinion not fact. Theres zero proof it will work on its own if nothing else was done (and Leicester, Coventry, Wrexham etc wouldn't have happened if 0 Wednesday fans were there). Lets respect each other's opinion and not suggest that anyone is rubbing noses unless its blatantly obvious. Weve come a long way in a short amount of time really.

The Trust have also said they support going to away matches, so why are you not quoting that part. You are merely taking a part in isolation that suits your agendal. As for half-arsed and rubbing noses in it, what a strange view. We all want what the same thing but just believe in different methods. The only fans rubbing anyones noses in it are those doing nothing amd making no sacrifices and they are few and far between. Im assuming that you went to the Embassy and have been on the marches to show you are not being half arsed about it. Or all of those things irrelevant, in which case then pin your colours to the mast and say all other protests are pointless and the only thing worth doing is not attending. See how much support that gets and whether the Trust back that view.

There are some posters on this thread and other threads that are relentless with the idea of "dont go to a single game home or away". Any discussion is shut down with this opinion, as if it is the holy grail to removing DC and anyone not complying is a bad fan. Sadly, theres zero guarantee that this will work, in fact there is zero guarantees that anything will work - we just dont know. We all have an opinion, but none of us know. Yes we know defunding him will have a big impact, but since we started that around 6 months ago, he's still stayed at the club and there is no way over that time frame that he is getting in enough income to cover everything, yet he continues. UK history tells us that in football at least no fanbase has ever removed an owner by defunding him. In fact, worldwide, no large fanbase has ever completely stopped attending, so its a very tall ask. During covid many sporting teams continued for a good while without income so even if a fanbase did stop, there is evidence that it could take a long time to have an effect, given away supporters may well bring more etc (Sheff U at home in div 1 next season - 30000 attendance, all United fans!). Nobody has actually any knowledge of how little it takes to run a L1 club, but past comments suggest it needs a far smaller budget than the Championship and there are teams surviving there now on 4000 gates. Our wage budget next year could well be the lowest in LL1 and we may need very few fans to keep going - this fight could last a long time if the Regulator doesnt force him out. There is however evidence of owners leaving through fan pressure. Fan pressure from fans attending and demonstrating. The Wednesday Trust know all this and have really close links to our club, with Steve Chu for instance having worked there for 7 years. Right now they are calling for all fans to boycott Middkesboro, but to use away games to keep the demonstrations loud and proud. These demonstrations have even impacted the home teams owners and I would hazard a guess that indirectly that also has an impact for us, because those chairman will be in the ear of the EFL and regulator on our behalf. Its conjecture of course, but isnt everything that we do in this fight conjecture. I know there is a group of you that think everyone not attending is the only action, but there are plenty that dont and its not just to protect our priority points. Ive said it on this thread already, I'll follow the Trusts lead because when you look at the history of large groups taking on owners, the best achievements have been via Unions and when the groups have come together, supported each other and followed the suggested path of action. For my part, I wont attend Middlesboro and despite 51 consecutive years as a season ticket holder and someone who missed 5 away games in the last 2 seasons, I wont renew whilst he remains. I will still keep going away unless the Trust wants us to boycott it.