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Lionel Messi


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He is the best player Ive seen in my opinion.

 

An absolute joy to watch technically and the ball seems stuck to his foot. He just seems to glide past defenders at will.

 

Despite his incredible goalscoring he always seems a team player rather than someone obsessed with personal records and glory.

 

 

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46 minutes ago, Belfast Owl 2 said:

 

Despite his incredible goalscoring he always seems a team player rather than someone obsessed with personal records and glory.

 

 

This is actually why I like Ronaldo. It often gets interpreted as arrogance or whatever, but that machine like drive to be the best is something I like about him. Not convinced that personal focus has to come at the expense of the team either. I don't think any of Ronaldo's teams have ever suffered for having him on board, although I guess Juventus and their failed gamble at winning the CL might be the closest. 

 

Rightly or wrongly though, not winning anything with Argentina was always the big question mark hanging over Messi so it's good he's at least bagged a Coppa America.

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16 minutes ago, sheffield_dave said:

 

This is actually why I like Ronaldo. It often gets interpreted as arrogance or whatever, but that machine like drive to be the best is something I like about him. Not convinced that personal focus has to come at the expense of the team either. I don't think any of Ronaldo's teams have ever suffered for having him on board, although I guess Juventus and their failed gamble at winning the CL might be the closest. 

 

Rightly or wrongly though, not winning anything with Argentina was always the big question mark hanging over Messi so it's good he's at least bagged a Coppa America.

 

Watching Ronaldos selfish streak as I would see puts me off him as a footballer in a way. Plus he bloody well loves himself. Ive seen him take on a shot too often or scream at team mate for not passing. It mightnt cost his teams trophies but I dislike it. Tremenduos footballer and athlete though.

 

And the never won a trophy with Argies was a red herring for me. He is their top scorer of all time for a generally dysfunctional team.

 

I dont think if Higuain didnt miss a series of sitters in finals and his chance in WC2014 had crept in would make a difference to how good his career was. 

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23 minutes ago, Belfast Owl 2 said:

And the never won a trophy with Argies was a red herring for me.

 

And for me - but objectively it was always the missing piece for those who wanted to question him. Even moreso when Ronaldo won Euro 2016 with Portugal. Every single element of their careers has been micro-analysed and compared for over a decade. One winning an international trophy was always going to pile some pressure on the other.

 

 

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He’s the best of our era for sure (I’m 29)


It depends how you define ‘the best of all time’.  Is it stats or is it pure footballing ability? 


Because if we look away from stats and look at pure ability with a football, then Maradona is the best of all time. 

Edited by FreshOwl
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1 minute ago, FreshOwl said:

He’s the best of our era for sure (I’m 29)


It depends how you define ‘the best of all time’.  Is it stats or is it pure footballing ability? 


Because if we look away from stats and look at pure ability with a football, then Maradona is the best of all time. 

 

I think you are taking the joy from it if you are bogged down in stats.

 

Messi and Ronaldo both have mad stats anyway

 

 

Ive taken the most joy from watching Messi than any other player. Original Ronaldo was best centre forward Ive seen.

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6 minutes ago, Belfast Owl 2 said:

 

I think you are taking the joy from it if you are bogged down in stats.

 

Messi and Ronaldo both have mad stats anyway

 

 

Ive taken the most joy from watching Messi than any other player. Original Ronaldo was best centre forward Ive seen.


When I was a kid I use to obsess over stats but as you get older you see the wider view of football and it’s inner workings, how A works with B and why that is integral to team performance. 
 

I find it fascinating discussing the greatest of all time, because there are so many variables and cases you can make for different players. 
 

Ronaldo has had the longevity due to how he looks after himself, but does that make him the greatest? Not for me 

 

I’m convinced if Maradona had stayed off the drugs and looked after himself he would be more of a Demi-god than he already is

 

Even Messi himself said Diego is 100x times the player he ever has been.
 

 

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He's the most naturally gifted player of his generation and, for me, the greatest player I've ever seen. 

 

Winning that Copa America and playing as well as he has done just caps it all off. 

 

As for Ronaldo, the fact there is even a debate out there on who is better is an achievement in itself. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, sheffield_dave said:

 

And for me - but objectively it was always the missing piece for those who wanted to question him. Even moreso when Ronaldo won Euro 2016 with Portugal. Every single element of their careers has been micro-analysed and compared for over a decade. One winning an international trophy was always going to pile some pressure on the other.

 

 

I find the two camps a bit weird to be honest. I am sure it's fuelled by the influx of American supporters because people weren't fanboys before these two debating who is the best Maradona or Pele or what not. Who is best Michael Jordan or Lebron James is a big thing over there. 

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2 minutes ago, Belfast Owl 2 said:

For the older ones on here.

 

How high would you rate George Best compared to Pele or other great players of that time.

 

Ive only seen highlight reels myself.

the problem is that if they're old enough to remember they still wouldn't have seen these players that often to really assess. We forget that it used to be FA cup final and home internationals as the only live football shown on TV. Crazy to think 

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1 hour ago, Ellis Rimmer said:

I find the two camps a bit weird to be honest. I am sure it's fuelled by the influx of American supporters because people weren't fanboys before these two debating who is the best Maradona or Pele or what not. Who is best Michael Jordan or Lebron James is a big thing over there. 


American sports are entirely bogged down by stats and who is the “GOAT”. It’s not surprising. 

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33 minutes ago, Inspector Lestrade said:

The number of top class footballers in the last 15 years is incredible 


It is pretty cool that we’re still not done with Messi and Ronaldo, but Mbappe and Haaland have decided to rock up too anyway. 
 

Hopefully Norway can put enough of a team around Haaland so we get to see him at a few WC and Euro’s. 

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11 hours ago, SallyCinnamon said:

 

 

The greatest of all time. 

I agree, having watched the final though Neymar must have been fouled at least 15 times. Never really compared him to Messi but he looked outstanding when he wasn't brought down.

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I think one of the things that always gets ignored when comparing Ronaldo and Messi to the likes of Pele and Maradona is just how much better the "average" defender is these days.

 

Over the last 20/30 years, the culture has moved from footballers being footballers to footballers being top athletes who have teams of sports scientists, physiotherapists and dietitians working for them. 

 

I have no idea how Pele and Maradona would do in the modern game against a modern centre back, but with the progress in conditioning, tactical assessment/scouting and all the test of it, they wouldn't do as well. I may be wrong, and I'm sure plenty will disagree with me, but the fact that Messi has managed to achieve what he's achieved with all that in mind... he really is the greatest of all time.

 

But maybe I'm just biased because it's all I really know.

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