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Racism in football


Guest OwlPastie

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Guest OwlPastie
38 minutes ago, Ellis Rimmer said:

Well obviously it’s singling Cafu out on the basis of his skin colour so is still offensive 

 

So do you feel the same about the recent chants towards Rashford because they singled him out for his skin colour? 

 

Obviously the idiots who abused him after the game are racist thugs, but are the ones who were encouraging him based on race racist also? 

 

Here's a link if anyone hasn't seen it 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, OwlPastie said:

 

So do you feel the same about the recent chants towards Rashford because they singled him out for his skin colour? 

 

Obviously the idiots who abused him after the game are racist thugs, but are the ones who were encouraging him based on race racist also? 

 

Here's a link if anyone hasn't seen it 

 

 

People should look to avoid mentioning colour whether as a superlative or not. If a white person chants it, then that would not be racist as such by dictionary definition, but inappropriate, and Wright laid out reasons why that may be, as can be construed in negative ways such as 'for a black/white/asian person' etc and helps to promote racist thoughts and stereotypes which hold people back.

In this video there are lots of black people chanting this and they shouldn't because there should not be speech that is right for one type of person or the other if equality is to be achieved. And I doubt they would be happy if white people sang the chant the other way around. If they don't want certain language to be used they shouldn't use it themselves. 

 

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1 hour ago, Ellis Rimmer said:

Well obviously it’s singling Cafu out on the basis of his skin colour so is still offensive 

Nice one. Drag the topic towards the white guy being the victim. Page 1 of racism for dummies 

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Guest OwlPastie
10 minutes ago, markg said:

Nice one. Drag the topic towards the white guy being the victim. Page 1 of racism for dummies 

 

It's not dragging a topic anywhere. The topic is racism. If it's towards any race it's racist. There are no free passes on discrimination. 

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5 minutes ago, OwlPastie said:

 

It's not dragging a topic anywhere. The topic is racism. If it's towards any race it's racist. There are no free passes on discrimination. 

Yes of course. I get that, racism can exist across difference races and towards different races.

 

But clearly white people are not affected by it in this country anywhere near as much as other people. So  to me it isn’t helpful, when ethnic minority groups, have suffered racism and discrimination for god knows how long to turn around and say ‘yeah but white people are victims too’. So what. It doesn’t need saying. We know that. It just seems like another reason for white propane to say ‘yeah we suffer from it too, so we don’t need to listen and learn’ 

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2 minutes ago, OwlPastie said:

 

It's not dragging a topic anywhere. The topic is racism. If it's towards any race it's racist. There are no free passes on discrimination. 

I think he thinks I am saying Lewis Buxton has been racially abused lol 

But on the bolded part a big thing about this is that certain people (not limited to any particular race) don't think black people can be racist because 'the institution is against them and to be racist you have to have the power to be racist, white people are in power so only they can be racist' it's a load of nonsense but as certain people hold these beliefs it's really quite difficult to say to them 'you shouldn't say racist things as it holds equality back' because these certain people (and it's quite widespread) don't think it's possible for them to be racist so won't agree with you what they're saying is racist even though would condemn you for being racist for saying something which has the exact same meaning or even the same thing

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1 minute ago, markg said:

Yes of course. I get that, racism can exist across difference races and towards different races.

 

But clearly white people are not affected by it in this country anywhere near as much as other people. So  to me it isn’t helpful, when ethnic minority groups, have suffered racism and discrimination for god knows how long to turn around and say ‘yeah but white people are victims too’. So what. It doesn’t need saying. We know that. It just seems like another reason for white propane to say ‘yeah we suffer from it too, so we don’t need to listen and learn’ 

Maaaate, I already told you, Cafu is black, IF YOU SAY TO LEWIS BUXTON HE IS THE WHITE CAFU AND YOU ARE WHITE YOURSELF YOU ARE MAKING A POINT OUT OF CAFU BEING BLACK WHICH IS OFFENSIVE

 

Why wouldn't you say 'The English Cafu' etc 

 

Why would it ever be ok to bring race into it?

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Guest OwlPastie
2 minutes ago, markg said:

Yes of course. I get that, racism can exist across difference races and towards different races.

 

But clearly white people are not affected by it in this country anywhere near as much as other people. So  to me it isn’t helpful, when ethnic minority groups, have suffered racism and discrimination for god knows how long to turn around and say ‘yeah but white people are victims too’. So what. It doesn’t need saying. We know that. It just seems like another reason for white propane to say ‘yeah we suffer from it too, so we don’t need to listen and learn’ 

 

Yeah I completely get that and agree, but as you say "this country". Racism is something we can always do more to stop, but it's never going away, ever. With the right action and education the numbers should be reduced, but racist are idiots, and they'll always be idiots around. Thankfully, as a nation we are progressing in actions to combat the issue. 

 

In any country, minorities will be targeted. These thugs who racially abused players would do that here, but if they were in a country that they are a minority they'd quake in their boots. It's almost like a mob mindset thinking they are safe because of the numbers are in their favour. 

 

It's such a diversive and sensitive topic, but I think they only way past it is to discuss it openly and honestly from all sides. We live in such a multi cultural country that discussing race and heritage shouldn't be taboo, but welcomed as that's how people can learn. 

 

Simply silencing one side and saying they are the problem, and saying one side are the victim only creates a divide. People should stand against together. No matter your colour, if you see someone being racist call it out, no matter what colour they are. It's the only way forward in my opinion. 

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22 minutes ago, OwlPastie said:

 

Yeah I completely get that and agree, but as you say "this country". Racism is something we can always do more to stop, but it's never going away, ever. With the right action and education the numbers should be reduced, but racist are idiots, and they'll always be idiots around. Thankfully, as a nation we are progressing in actions to combat the issue. 

 

In any country, minorities will be targeted. These thugs who racially abused players would do that here, but if they were in a country that they are a minority they'd quake in their boots. It's almost like a mob mindset thinking they are safe because of the numbers are in their favour. 

 

It's such a diversive and sensitive topic, but I think they only way past it is to discuss it openly and honestly from all sides. We live in such a multi cultural country that discussing race and heritage shouldn't be taboo, but welcomed as that's how people can learn. 

 

Simply silencing one side and saying they are the problem, and saying one side are the victim only creates a divide. People should stand against together. No matter your colour, if you see someone being racist call it out, no matter what colour they are. It's the only way forward in my opinion. 

Some good points mate. 
 

I do agree with your last paragraph and maybe I shouldn’t have reacted the way I did earlier on. It is important to not stop discussion so I was wrong. I just get annoyed when people that aren’t generally affected by it shout up to say it affects everyone n an attempt to change the subject or to sickened people that are telling us their issues. 
 

 

 

 

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47 minutes ago, markg said:

Some good points mate. 
 

I do agree with your last paragraph and maybe I shouldn’t have reacted the way I did earlier on. It is important to not stop discussion so I was wrong. I just get annoyed when people that aren’t generally affected by it shout up to say it affects everyone n an attempt to change the subject or to sickened people that are telling us their issues. 
 

 

 

 

No you just didn’t understand the point lol

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3 hours ago, matthefish2002 said:

 

Think you have to take each case on its merits.

Think a bloke at 42 should get a more severe punishment than a teenage kid for instance. 

so some teenage yob commits an offence and should get a lighter punishment then a middle age yob who commits the same offence  .......isnt that ageism 

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15 hours ago, OwlPastie said:

 

So do you feel the same about the recent chants towards Rashford because they singled him out for his skin colour? 

 

Obviously the idiots who abused him after the game are racist thugs, but are the ones who were encouraging him based on race racist also? 

 

Here's a link if anyone hasn't seen it 

 

 

 

What I see here is a group of young black men celebrating positive role models and success stories.

 

These guys probably experience racism on some level on a daily basis, and are constantly racial profiled.

 

This was a chance for them to be positive about their country, favourite sport and about being sucessful and black.

 

It is absolutely perfectly fine and justifiable for them to do this. 

 

I think a bit of education around the subject of racism wouldn't go amiss fof some people,  but unfortunately those who need it never bother.

 

If you were to say "switch it round to white youths singing it for white players..it would be racist!!!!" ..well yes it would, and only educating yourself on this type of thing will explain why. 

 

A good reading list can be found here:

 

https://www.penguin.co.uk/articles/2020/june/racism-black-lives-matter-antiracist-reading-list-books.html

 

 

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It needs to be zero tolerance across the board really. I have black family members who are England supporters and I know the aftermath of the game hit them badly. It’s horrible thinking that you are not accepted by some people from your own country. The players did not deserve that and it has a knock on effect to minority supporters too.

 

The bigotry problem is a lot wider than people realise, it is good that more attention is being drawn to racism, but more needs to be done about other forms of racism/abuse that seem to go under the radar too.

 

James McClean for example receives horrendous anti-Irish racist abuse in England  but very little is said or done about that.
 

In Scotland the gruesome twosome’s behaviour is constantly swept under the carpet and the songs ignored. If you look on Rangers forum the moderators openly allow Sectarian slurs to describe Catholics.

 

Homophobic abuse is rife that in football. 
 

Progress has been made but England and Scotland are both miles away from sorting this. 

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Guest OwlPastie
7 minutes ago, Bannofan said:

 

What I see here is a group of young black men celebrating positive role models and success stories.

 

These guys probably experience racism on some level on a daily basis, and are constantly racial profiled.

 

This was a chance for them to be positive about their country, favourite sport and about being sucessful and black.

 

It is absolutely perfectly fine and justifiable for them to do this. 

 

I think a bit of education around the subject of racism wouldn't go amiss fof some people,  but unfortunately those who need it never bother.

 

If you were to say "switch it round to white youths singing it for white players..it would be racist!!!!" ..well yes it would, and only educating yourself on this type of thing will explain why. 

 

A good reading list can be found here:

 

https://www.penguin.co.uk/articles/2020/june/racism-black-lives-matter-antiracist-reading-list-books.html

 

 

 

I have to disagree. If like you say, it's racist if roles are reversed then the same should apply. That's what equality is, fair and equal treatment. As you say, those guys chanting might have been victim to racism. There's every chance, they also may have never experienced it. Giving a victim a free pass isn't the way forward, and automatically assuming they are a victim beforehand isn't right. Education and discussion to prevent them ever becoming a victim to be targeted because of their race is the most important factor in my opinion.

 

Racism is a crime at the end of the day. And it should be treated and dealt with like any crime. A shop owner who's been shoplifted from over and over again doesn't have the right to go and steal a car. 

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Just now, OwlPastie said:

 

I have to disagree. If like you say, it's racist if roles are reversed then the same should apply. That's what equality is, fair and equal treatment. As you say, those guys chanting might have been victim to racism. There's every chance, they also may have never experienced it. Giving a victim a free pass isn't the way forward, and automatically assuming they are a victim beforehand isn't right. Education and discussion to prevent them ever becoming a victim to be targeted because of their race is the most important factor in my opinion.

 

Racism is a crime at the end of the day. And it should be treated and dealt with like any crime. A shop owner who's been shoplifted from over and over again doesn't have the right to go and steal a car. 

 

Well I completely disagree with you, and quite frankly know what you are saying is complete nonsense, and to be honest I'm past the point of dragging stats from easy to find sources to prove my points. 

 

If you don't want to challenge your existing view points, to educate yourself,  then that's your prerogative. You'll get no more debate from me though.

 

Have a good day.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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6 minutes ago, Bannofan said:

 

Well I completely disagree with you, and quite frankly know what you are saying is complete nonsense, and to be honest I'm past the point of dragging stats from easy to find sources to prove my points. 

 

If you don't want to challenge your existing view points, to educate yourself,  then that's your prerogative. You'll get no more debate from me though.

 

Have a good day.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's so draining isn't it. Imagine being from a group of people that has suffered with racism their whole life. I honestly don't know where they get the energy from to carry on fighting for change.

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Guest OwlPastie
3 minutes ago, Bannofan said:

 

Well I completely disagree with you, and quite frankly know what you are saying is complete nonsense, and to be honest I'm past the point of dragging stats from easy to find sources to prove my points. 

 

If you don't want to challenge your existing view points, to educate yourself,  then that's your prerogative. You'll get no more debate from me though.

 

Have a good day.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's completely fine, and I respect your opinion. But I don't think any source or stat will change my core belief that all people should be treated equally and fairly. My view will always be that racism is wrong, no if or buts. 

 

To assume I need to be educated though for believing all people should be held accountable for their wrong doing is an arrogant and ignorant point of view.

 

The belief that a statement is racist from one demographic but not from another is almost laughable though. 

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