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I've watched the first 5 minutes so far and it looks like a great documentary. The artillery/bombs would be one of my biggest fears in WWI. Wasn't it before the Somme? We bombarded the Germans constantly for around 2 weeks, then detonated all the explosives under a part of the German trench (that the engineers tunneled) which was reportedly heard over here. It didn't do much aside from alert the Germans the real attack was happening and gave them time to man the machine guns and trenches. I've read that most Germans were actually deaf during this too.   

An amazing highly rated 5 part documentary in colour from 2014 which I watched a few years back, it mainly focuses on the Western front I think. I love the narrator too, he's French Canadian. It was produced by France and Canada. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocalypse:_World_War_I The Western/trench front gets too much attention in a way I think. You had North Africa, the Middle East, Eastern front, Italy and the sea war also fought in the Pacific with Japan against Germany etc. 

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ1PG_hIm9LAo2yGYep2nB 

The other parts can be watched on the more videos/recommended section or on the channel itself. 

Looks great as well. 

Also They Shall Not Grow Old (from a few years ago) trailer and clips if you haven't seen it, (it might still be on BBC iPlayer):

Found some German videos too:

What was it all for. The suffering etc. still continued after and it led to WWII.

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"The trouble with "lessons from history" is that we usually read them best after falling flat on our chins."   

 

"Girls are simply wonderful. Just to stand on a corner and watch them go past is delightful. They don't walk. At least not what we do when we walk. I don't know how to describe it, but it's much more complex and utterly delightful. They don't move just their feet; everything moves and in different directions . . . and all of it graceful."  Starship Troopers, Amen!        

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3 hours ago, M Royds said:

I thought that the Americans had more than a free run to Germany than the Russians. Once all was lost the Germans favoured the Americans sweeping and taking more ground than the Russians. Not sure if I got this right but is this the reason West Germany was bigger that east Germany?

 

image.thumb.png.be78fb6603ef5c6cb10db056c466489e.png

 
 

Of course, there were towns and districts with committed Nazis made it very difficult for the Americans with battles on every street corner. However, on the eastern side, the Soviets were made to fight for every metre for fear of what the Russians would do to them. 
 

If you get chance what Berlin on iPlayer. It’s grim but compelling. 
 

I must rewatch Band of Brothers. I found the end quite moving when the title of the series is actually mentioned for the first time. For me, this is the moment that the character, played by wonderful Damien Lewis, realises that the enemy grunt is not much different to me. 

 

The Germans did want the yanks/british to reach berlin first - but they weren't given the option

 

Not sure what you mean by BoB but are you taking your historical research from Hollywood?

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6 hours ago, Incognito Owl said:

Thanks, I'll check it out. My nan was around 10 when the war ended, but I've never really asked her about it. I remember watching a BBC documentary about the blitz etc. and it featured Sheffield in parts, I'll try and find it.

Yeah it's ringing a bell now, I'm still not sure on the impeding of the Americans though, I'll try and research it.

 

 

It was the river elba

 

Here is a good potted account of the battle for berlin

 

At around 25 minutes explains the US/Russia link up which gave the other Russian units a clear run into berlin

 

The Americans should have got there first othwrwise

 

 

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10 hours ago, scram said:

 

The Germans did want the yanks/british to reach berlin first - but they weren't given the option

 

Not sure what you mean by BoB but are you taking your historical research from Hollywood?

lol

No, it’s just a fine programme. Give it a try. 

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On 02/05/2021 at 18:43, M Royds said:

Maybe. I seem to recall that a lot of the fighting tactics were not much more advance than during the Napoleonic times. Calvary charges to clear the way and infantry walking behind. 
 

Go forward to the second world and complete turnaround. The German Army was initially so successful in sweeping Europe by having a small dynamic fighting force that went at a fast pace, often independently, with a common goal of driving forward. And supported by superior air cover. 
 

Go forward even more, will warfare needs personnel when a guy in a portacabin in Nevada can bring destruction with the use of a joy stick. 
 

Who knows. We may find out soon with Russia and Ukraine.  

I kinda forgot about this thread.

 

The tactics on the western front like calvary were similar at the start with the war being pretty open, then trench warfare became the norm and then you have the advancements of weaponry and tactics etc.

 

Yes, we/the French were expecting a similar war to WWI. Some German panzer units had to stop for the supplies/infantry to catch up. Doesn't the story go too that Polish Calvary charged at German tanks? If it happened or not, it was probably propaganda anyway.

On 02/05/2021 at 18:57, M Royds said:

I thought that the Americans had more than a free run to Germany than the Russians. Once all was lost the Germans favoured the Americans sweeping and taking more ground than the Russians. Not sure if I got this right but is this the reason West Germany was bigger that east Germany?

 

image.thumb.png.be78fb6603ef5c6cb10db056c466489e.png

 
 

Of course, there were towns and districts with committed Nazis made it very difficult for the Americans with battles on every street corner. However, on the eastern side, the Soviets were made to fight for every metre for fear of what the Russians would do to them. 
 

If you get chance what Berlin on iPlayer. It’s grim but compelling. 
 

I must rewatch Band of Brothers. I found the end quite moving when the title of the series is actually mentioned for the first time. For me, this is the moment that the character, played by wonderful Damien Lewis, realises that the enemy grunt is not much different to me. 

The funny thing is that Germany was never really unified properly in 1990 as shown in the pictures below: Germany since 1990 in red, black was territory lost after WWII and grey territory lost after WWI. Poland got moved west after the Soviets kept east Poland (which got annexed when both Germany and the Soviet Union invaded Poland that started the war when Britain and France declared war on Germany alone.) The funny thing being too is the Soviets kept all of Poland anyway, after Churchill/us basically stabbed the Poles in the back. The East Prussia state/land is still under Russian territory today too as an enclave. Here are the links I got the pictures from if anyone is interested: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Former_eastern_territories_of_Germany & https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Prussia   

Former_eastern_territories_of_Germany.pn 

Also found this one:

German_territorial_losses_1919_and_1945. 

On 02/05/2021 at 00:06, scram said:

 

 

It was the river elba

 

Here is a good potted account of the battle for berlin

 

At around 25 minutes explains the US/Russia link up which gave the other Russian units a clear run into berlin

 

The Americans should have got there first othwrwise

 

 

Thanks for finding it, I still haven't watched it, but will. I will look for the series too.


"The trouble with "lessons from history" is that we usually read them best after falling flat on our chins."   

 

"Girls are simply wonderful. Just to stand on a corner and watch them go past is delightful. They don't walk. At least not what we do when we walk. I don't know how to describe it, but it's much more complex and utterly delightful. They don't move just their feet; everything moves and in different directions . . . and all of it graceful."  Starship Troopers, Amen!        

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"The trouble with "lessons from history" is that we usually read them best after falling flat on our chins."   

 

"Girls are simply wonderful. Just to stand on a corner and watch them go past is delightful. They don't walk. At least not what we do when we walk. I don't know how to describe it, but it's much more complex and utterly delightful. They don't move just their feet; everything moves and in different directions . . . and all of it graceful."  Starship Troopers, Amen!        

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1 hour ago, Incognito Owl said:

I kinda forgot about this thread.

 

The tactics on the western front like calvary were similar at the start with the war being pretty open, then trench warfare became the norm and then you have the advancements of weaponry and tactics etc.

 

Yes, we/the French were expecting a similar war to WWI. Some German panzer units had to stop for the supplies/infantry to catch up. Doesn't the story go too that Polish Calvary charged at German tanks? If it happened or not, it was probably propaganda anyway.

The funny thing is that Germany was never really unified properly in 1990 as shown in the pictures below: Germany since 1990 in red, black was territory lost after WWII and grey territory lost after WWI. Poland got moved west after the Soviets kept east Poland (which got annexed when both Germany and the Soviet Union invaded Poland that started the war when Britain and France declared war on Germany alone.) The funny thing being too is the Soviets kept all of Poland anyway, after Churchill/us basically stabbed the Poles in the back. The East Prussia state/land is still under Russian territory today too as an enclave. Here are the links I got the pictures from if anyone is interested: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Former_eastern_territories_of_Germany & https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Prussia   

Former_eastern_territories_of_Germany.pn 

Also found this one:

German_territorial_losses_1919_and_1945. 

Thanks for finding it, I still haven't watched it, but will. I will look for the series too.

Quite big was Germany. Not a particularly old country. Lots of kingdoms and states that unified.  A bit like Italy. Since the fall of Rome,  Italy was lots of city states, countries and papal regions. Garibaldi and his red shirts unified Italy, except the Vatican and San Marino in 1860ish.  It was said that the Pope was so angry with this he refused to leave the Vatican for years because he wanted to give the impression he was a prisoner. 
 

Back to Germany, I think it was Bismarck that unified Germany, but with little blood shed, unless my memory is fading. 

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20 minutes ago, M Royds said:

Quite big was Germany. Not a particularly old country. Lots of kingdoms and states that unified.  A bit like Italy. Since the fall of Rome,  Italy was lots of city states, countries and papal regions. Garibaldi and his red shirts unified Italy, except the Vatican and San Marino in 1860ish.  It was said that the Pope was so angry with this he refused to leave the Vatican for years because he wanted to give the impression he was a prisoner. 
 

Back to Germany, I think it was Bismarck that unified Germany, but with little blood shed, unless my memory is fading. 

Yeah I know abit about how Germany and Italy unified, but that's about it so thank you for the information. I know a bit about the Austro-Prussia War too thanks to this great marching song created in 1866 after victory, I'm sure you probably remember hearing it in the famous Indiana Jones scene below too: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Königgrätzer_Marsch & https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austro-Prussian_War 

 


"The trouble with "lessons from history" is that we usually read them best after falling flat on our chins."   

 

"Girls are simply wonderful. Just to stand on a corner and watch them go past is delightful. They don't walk. At least not what we do when we walk. I don't know how to describe it, but it's much more complex and utterly delightful. They don't move just their feet; everything moves and in different directions . . . and all of it graceful."  Starship Troopers, Amen!        

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21 minutes ago, Incognito Owl said:

Yeah I know abit about how Germany and Italy unified, but that's about it so thank you for the information. I know a bit about the Austro-Prussia War too thanks to this great marching song created in 1866 after victory, I'm sure you probably remember hearing it in the famous Indiana Jones scene below too: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Königgrätzer_Marsch & https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austro-Prussian_War 

 


Wow. Just had a flash back to this German marching song. I’d very surprised if you get what film it was featured in. 
 

 

lol

 

oops a clue. 

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26 minutes ago, M Royds said:


Wow. Just had a flash back to this German marching song. I’d very surprised if you get what film it was featured in. 
 

 

lol

 

oops a clue. 

I haven't heard of that, it's good. So have no clue about the film, but after some research is it The Heath Is Green?lol

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Heath_Is_Green_(1951_film) 

The_Heath_Is_Green_(1951_film).jpg 

 

Also this my favourite:

 


"The trouble with "lessons from history" is that we usually read them best after falling flat on our chins."   

 

"Girls are simply wonderful. Just to stand on a corner and watch them go past is delightful. They don't walk. At least not what we do when we walk. I don't know how to describe it, but it's much more complex and utterly delightful. They don't move just their feet; everything moves and in different directions . . . and all of it graceful."  Starship Troopers, Amen!        

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29 minutes ago, Incognito Owl said:

I haven't heard of that, it's good. So have no clue about the film, but after some research is it The Heath Is Green?lol

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Heath_Is_Green_(1951_film) 

The_Heath_Is_Green_(1951_film).jpg 

 

Also this my favourite:

 

You didn’t use the lol clue. 
 

Although Sid James wasn’t in this one. 
 


image.thumb.jpeg.bc25b2397db292822653736e8c47257e.jpeg

 

Not sure if you’ve seen it but it’s the bit where the Legion are hopelessly surrounded by Riffs and the play a gramophone with that German marching song to mimic an approaching army. 
 

I wasn’t quite sure why they used a German marching song or why Kenneth Williams play a German character, with it being French.  so I had a quick and it turns out that the legion was quite heavy with volunteers of Germanic origin. 

 

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Also going back to the unknown/forgotten stories from WWII I've got one here that most people probably haven't heard of and you wouldn't see in mainstream documentaries and history books, The Betrayal of the Cossacks / Repatriation of the Cossacks after WWII / Operation Keelhaul that was kept a secret from the Western world for over 30 years: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repatriation_of_Cossacks_after_World_War_II & https://flying-dutchman.net/the-british-army-and-the-betrayal-of-the-cossacks/ from last year, you can find many other longer pages/articles online too.  

British-betrayal-cossacks-1945.jpg

 Some videos I found as well: This is just the Wikipedia article above, but in audio form. Soviet Gulags/concentration camps didn't end with Stalin either also if I remember correctly the Western powers never did receive the western prisoners so most if not all died along with the Cossacks etc. "Uncle Joe" played a blinder.

 

 

A 1 hour and 30 minutes documentary on it, watched 5 minute so far and it looks really good, it features actual soldiers who did it/had too as well. Only watchable on YouTube though.

 

 Not in English, but still good to look at.

 

Can we have a history section?lol 


"The trouble with "lessons from history" is that we usually read them best after falling flat on our chins."   

 

"Girls are simply wonderful. Just to stand on a corner and watch them go past is delightful. They don't walk. At least not what we do when we walk. I don't know how to describe it, but it's much more complex and utterly delightful. They don't move just their feet; everything moves and in different directions . . . and all of it graceful."  Starship Troopers, Amen!        

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1 hour ago, M Royds said:

You didn’t use the lol clue. 
 

Although Sid James wasn’t in this one. 
 


image.thumb.jpeg.bc25b2397db292822653736e8c47257e.jpeg

 

Not sure if you’ve seen it but it’s the bit where the Legion are hopelessly surrounded by Riffs and the play a gramophone with that German marching song to mimic an approaching army. 
 

I wasn’t quite sure why they used a German marching song or why Kenneth Williams play a German character, with it being French.  so I had a quick and it turns out that the legion was quite heavy with volunteers of Germanic origin. 

 

No I didn'tloland no I haven't seen it, but he was in it though:

 

14 minutes ago, Incognito Owl said:

Also going back to the unknown/forgotten stories from WWII I've got one here that most people probably haven't heard of and you wouldn't see in mainstream documentaries and history books, The Betrayal of the Cossacks / Repatriation of the Cossacks after WWII / Operation Keelhaul that was kept a secret from the Western world for over 30 years: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repatriation_of_Cossacks_after_World_War_II & https://flying-dutchman.net/the-british-army-and-the-betrayal-of-the-cossacks/ from last year, you can find many other longer pages/articles online too.  

British-betrayal-cossacks-1945.jpg

 Some videos I found as well: This is just the Wikipedia article above, but in audio form. Soviet Gulags/concentration camps didn't end with Stalin either also if I remember correctly the Western powers never did receive the western prisoners so most if not all died along with the Cossacks etc. "Uncle Joe" played a blinder.

 

 

A 1 hour and 30 minutes documentary on it, watched 5 minute so far and it looks really good, it features actual soldiers who did it/had too as well. Only watchable on YouTube though.

 

 Not in English, but still good to look at.

 

Can we have a history section?lol 

Also I forgot to put that I can probably remember some more unknown topics if anyone is interested.


"The trouble with "lessons from history" is that we usually read them best after falling flat on our chins."   

 

"Girls are simply wonderful. Just to stand on a corner and watch them go past is delightful. They don't walk. At least not what we do when we walk. I don't know how to describe it, but it's much more complex and utterly delightful. They don't move just their feet; everything moves and in different directions . . . and all of it graceful."  Starship Troopers, Amen!        

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Another decent series on bbc iPlayer. 
 

Ghis tis focusing on the war behind closed doors. Heavily focusing on Stalin. 
 

Alway thought he was an animal. Up there with Hitler in how evil a man could be. Proper cold psychopath. 
 

My God, the Poles did suffer. My take from this programme was the Soviets were as bad if not worse than the Germans. The incident of the massacre of the Polish offices by Stalin and the almost unified cover up is breathtaking. 
 

Poor Poland. Let down by everybody. 

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On 19/07/2021 at 21:58, M Royds said:

Another decent series on bbc iPlayer. 
 

Ghis tis focusing on the war behind closed doors. Heavily focusing on Stalin. 
 

Alway thought he was an animal. Up there with Hitler in how evil a man could be. Proper cold psychopath. 
 

My God, the Poles did suffer. My take from this programme was the Soviets were as bad if not worse than the Germans. The incident of the massacre of the Polish offices by Stalin and the almost unified cover up is breathtaking. 
 

Poor Poland. Let down by everybody. 

Hi Royds, I forgot to reply to this. Anyway I had a post in Niel's why do we celebrate war etc. thread in the dressing room that touched on the Katyn forest massacre, which is below. The video is age restricted now though, if you can view it anyway. 

 

Many people seem to forget about how bad Stalin/the Soviets were before, during and after the war as we were "allies". I always remember a story of a priest dying peacefully in captivity while still praying etc. Then you have Stalin who died alone, probably in pain. Also I remember the footage in some WWII documentaries of Ukrainian women blessing German soldiers which were passing by in vehicles. I kinda see the war especially between the Germans etc. and the Soviets as a holy war in a way. 

 

I feel sorry for counties like Finland too, who surprisedly held the Soviets by themselves for a time in the Winter War of 1939-40. Ironically as well the Soviet's shelled one of their own villages and blamed it on the Finns for an excuse to leave the two counties non aggression pact between each other.

 

A bit of topic, but I came across this video while trying to find the Ukrainian women one. It's a depressing/horrid watch really, but another thing that was hushed up even by the women. It hasn't been really talked about properly until the last 20 years or so. Another thing is the Soviets even mass raped Soviet citizens in recaptured territory. It's all just sick how easy it is we lose the sense of civilization/being human in such things as war etc.

On 17/06/2021 at 07:54, Incognito Owl said:

I always remember the massacre known as Katyn, where around 22,000 Polish officers and intellectuals were mass executed and dumped into mass graves by the Soviet NKVD: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_massacre A 10 minute video below too I found featuring two Poles who were some of the few who didn't get taken out and killed. The footage is old, but it is now fully known the Soviets did it. If I remember correctly as well the Germans took soom western POW to see the site/s and the exile Polish government wanted more Red Cross investigations, but we put a stop to it. We knew it was them, but supported them on it and covered it up.

 

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"The trouble with "lessons from history" is that we usually read them best after falling flat on our chins."   

 

"Girls are simply wonderful. Just to stand on a corner and watch them go past is delightful. They don't walk. At least not what we do when we walk. I don't know how to describe it, but it's much more complex and utterly delightful. They don't move just their feet; everything moves and in different directions . . . and all of it graceful."  Starship Troopers, Amen!        

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